Led to this thread
The short version is there are some developers from Red Hat working on gcc attempting to prevent ROP style attacks. More than one person has accused this work of being pointless and a waste of time. It's not, the waste of time is arguing about why trying new things is dumb.
Here's the important thing security people always screw up.
The only waste of time is if you do nothing and complain about the people who are doing something.
It is possible the ROP work that's being done won't end up preventing anything. If that's true the absolute worst thing that will result is learning a lesson. It's all too easy in the security space to act like this. If it's not perfect you can make the argument it's bad. It's a common trait of a dysfunctional group.
This is however true in crypto, never invent your own crypto algorithm.
But in the context of humanity, this is how progress happens. First someone has an idea, it might be a terrible idea, but they work on it, then they get help, the people helping expand and change the idea, eventually, after people work together, the end is greater than the means. Or if it's a bad idea, it goes nowhere. Failure only exists if you learn nothing.
This isn't how security has worked, it's probably why everything seems so broken. The problem isn't the normal people, it's the security people. Here's how a normal security idea happens:
- YOUR IDEA IS STUPID YOU'RE WASTING YOUR TIME AND YOU'RE STUPID!!!
- Give up
From now on, if someone has an idea and you think it's silly, say nothing. Just sit and watch. If you're right it will light on fire and you can run around giving hi5s. It probably won't though. If someone starts something, and others come to help, it's going to grow into something, or they'll fail and learn something. This is how humans learn and get better. It's how open source works, it's why open source won. It's why security is losing.
The current happy ending to the ROP thread is it's going to continue, the naysayers seem to have calmed down for now. I was a bit worried for a while I'll admit. I have no doubt they'll be back though.
Help or shut up. That is all.
Join the conversation, hit me up on twitter, I'm @joshbressers